And lo on Thu, 31 Jan 2008 05:36:50 -0000, Patrick Elliott  
<sel### [at] rraznet> did spake, saying:

> In article <op.t5opm6cgc3xi7v@news.povray.org>,
> phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk says...
>
> Ok, then tell me how most of what gets called "spin" in politics isn't
> exactly what is described. A mix of people making up stuff to explain
> what they don't comprehend, while lying about the stuff they know, or
> think they know, is true. lol

It's like statistics, spin is presenting the data in a different way.

Try this

"It's often said that you can't lie; is this true?"
"Yes"

Now the interpreted vebose version

"Is it true that it's often said you can't lie?"
"Yes it is true that it's often said I can't lie, however the statement  
that everyone makes is incorrect and I can and do lie all the time"

Yeah weaselly with a capital W.

> Seriously though, you have some good points. The presumption though is
> that the liar *knows* the truth and opts to say something else, not that
> they only *think* they know. While that may not always be true, from the
> perspective of those presenting the "facts" to refute the lie, its still
> presumed to be a lie, even if they got it right *by* lying. Same with
> BS. Yes, its possible to make something up and "accidentally" stumble on
> the truth, but its rather improbable.

I do love that presumption though, again try this

"The floor of the main hall in Christchurch is paved with marble"

Every form of lie detection device you may have will tell you I'm lying,  
at this point you pump me full of pentathol and attach electrodes to  
tender areas of my body in order to discover what the main hall floor is  
paved with. Except I don't know, I don't even know if Christcurch has a  
main hall. I'm bullshitting, but the fact that the devices tell you I'm  
lying implies I know the truth, which I don't.

> As for spin.. Lets put it this way instead: "To spin something you have
> to know not only how you *want* people to perceive things, but also how
> your opponent *does* perceive them. To get the right effect, you have to
> distort his view, make things up to fill in gaps you can't explain
> yourself, and, if your goal is to win, regardless of the accuracy of
> your position, lie about what is really going on." Its not really
> "spin" unless you are at least two out of three of those.

Apart from the "make thing up" bit yep. If you have to make something up  
to fill the gaps then you can be accused of lying; much more satisfactory  
to be misinterpreted instead.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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